Industry experts: Mark Dowds

Transcript

Podcast/video transcript

Meghan Warby

Welcome to Digital Disruptors, I’m Meghan from Say Yeah, and in this episode of Industry Experts, we’re talking to Mark Dowds.

Mark’s the co founder of Trov, a disrupter in the insurance world. While he’s back in Ireland now, Mark’s best known work was in the US. He was part of a series of groundbreaking venture initiatives, including early seed investment in Uber and Twilio. After selling his last company mark to kind of cool new challenge, he created the first on demand insurance platform, this Trov project could completely disrupt one of the most traditional conservative industries in the world. Let’s jump into our conversation about digital transformation and insurance with Lee Dale Say Yeah’s CEO, and Mark Dowds co founder of Trov.

Lee Dale

We’re really pleased to have you here today, Mark, thank you for joining us.

Mark Dowds

Good to be here.

Lee Dale

And actually, if you’d like to just introduce yourself quickly to our audience, tell us you know your role at Trov

And even a little bit of background on how you got to become co founder of Trov. And what led you to that position.

Mark Dowds

My name is Mark Dowds. I’m the Chief Strategy Officer at Trov, and which sounds very fancy until you bought a time to what I’m really accountable for, which is ultimately revenue for the company. So I’m responsible for pulling together the partnerships and sort of longer term revenue and our long term sustainability. So it’s, so it’s fun. I get to work with lots of interesting incumbents, distribution partners, all of that sort of stuff i

Lee Dale

In the insurance space

Mark Dowds

In the insurance space. Yes. So we’re, we’re an insurer tech company. So a lot of my responsibilities is working with underwriters, like we we’ve partnered with Munich on the digital partner side of things also with a sample when Japan with accident the UK with suncorp in Australia. So I’m we’re sort of growing that list at the moment. And, but also on the distribution side, which could be a technology company, a bank, or somebody who’s setting up a digital insurance wing or, you know, part of their business model. So we’re finding that there’s lots of companies today that have clients, short customers, and, and data and what they’re looking for is a platform to deploy interesting insurance products to either for their customers.

Lee Dale

Yeah. So let’s talk about that idea that, that you’re working with a lot of incumbents and so they have a legacy business model, that legacy processes.

I don’t think I’m going out on a limb and saying that you’re looking to disrupt that.

Mark Dowds

Yes. And we didn’t we didn’t go out initially to disrupt we were not Well, I suppose there was an aspect of what we thought if we bring new data into that world that could certainly enhance the disrupted whatever way you want to look at that. What we have ended up doing and as we built and deployed our initial products is that we realized that the insurance companies, the large incumbents, and didn’t really have the technology systems behind them to deploy these new initiatives. So they, these old systems weren’t able to process and dynamic data, or they weren’t able to process information like by the second so we, so we ended up building a platform to deploy these new products that calculates risk dynamically at prices that by the second, you know, it can bill in any increment to any party. So this all the flexibility at which the legacy systems lock in these big insurance companies.

Lee Dale

Right. And this idea of disruption, maybe sometimes seen as a dirty word of people are trying to avoid being disrupted, but in your case, you’re looking to partner with the incumbents in the underwriters and yeah, and form. There’s a value proposition there that you’re bringing to the table that says we’re better together. Yeah, exactly.

Mark Dowds

Right. So what you find in the ensure tech space is that a lot of ensure tech folks that are emerging in there, no clear mission is really to say, okay, we’re going to try and eat the lunch of the big insurers, we’re doing the opposite. And we’re partnering with folks that are not insurance, but we’re also working with the insurers to say, we can take you into the next century here, or decade or wherever they got stuck. And so they’re we’re enabling them to compete with ensure texts for lack of a better term.

Lee Dale

And you said where they get stuck. Yeah. Is there a sense for you, I know that Trov is a global organization is touching in different markets. Is there kind of a consistent theme that that that relates to that idea that there maybe it’s technology, maybe it’s process, maybe its business model, where this opportunity is has come to the fore for you guys?

Mark Dowds

Yeah, pretty much every country that every insurer that we’ve worked with we’ve realized that their systems are archaic, and and they’re really giving off old sort of annual policies to strike heavily paper based behind the scenes. So the idea of digitizing what currently exists as a very expensive or impossible feat. So we’re coming alongside them, you know, almost like a satellite to be able to enable them to play in a new digital space without having to transform everything from the inside out. We’re helping them to sort of test, learn, build, grow in a digital way. And our hope is that that can be the platform that can displace some of the older systems that exist today.

Lee Dale

When you look at this idea of there’s a technology limitation, there’s a data limitation and working on the software side of things. That’s not all about automation, or what’s happening behind the scenes. I think you spend a lot of time with Trov on looking at what is the customer value? Let’s talk a little bit about that.

Mark Dowds

Yeah, we’ve looked at what is the customer volume where the trends were things moving and shifting. If you look at casually ensure like a retail ensure well aren’t like a known brand, the mid sort of somewhere between for the majority 40 to 50% of their book of business is auto as an example. And that world is changing rapidly as we all know, you know, you’ve got Uber left, you got waymo and autonomous vehicles and every OEM basically emerging with all with new with new tech and data. And so we’re also that world of mobility is going to completely change what car ownership means and what mobility means, in a sense and then I’m where does insurance then begin to play? So that not so not since we’re, we’re getting into that world, along with the sort of looking at what the customer needs, where the customer is going, and and then beginning to say, how do we then systematized that new process, gather the data in and then iterate continuously on product add to match their lifestyle and their needs. So the And there’s been a lot of talk of in the insurance world of profiling people, but it’s normally been negative in the sense of profiling their risks. So they it’s quite punitive. And what we’re doing is trying to find new data sources to basically enhance the user experience. So rather than saying we’re gathering data, they’re busy limit what you can do. We want to gather data so that we can customize what you know what you can receive. So we’re trying to turn that on its head.

Lee Dale

How does that process come about? As far as you know, you’re looking for practical solutions for changing market? How do you investigate

Mark Dowds

We’ve done a lot of research. But also we’ve got companies that come to us so God, innovators will, I’ll use waymo as an example, alphabets autonomous vehicle company. And in that environment, they’ve already done the research, they know where the world is going and or they have a belief set on that so and not not environment when we get engaged where we have conversation with them. They They’ve already done the research they they see, they see where the world’s moving, and then we get behind them. So there’s so the benefit of working and doing this stuff in partnership is we find those partners that are already thinking about where the world’s changing, and who are who have customers, that some of the old protection stuffs not working any longer. So then they come to us as an innovative partner, and as well as an insurance platform.

Lee Dale

So is there a process of experimentation or process of kind of validation that you’re going through testing out different options for consumers?

Mark Dowds

Definitely. So yeah, before we get the build will do lots of lots of testing. With a lot of design thinking, you know, we’ll do all the workshopping that most companies today are maybe not most, most should be doing but some of the leading companies are doing today. So we’ll, we’ll test iterate a lot around you know, screens and user experiences and and stories and to see what to see Hi there. The potential customer engages with an that’ll help enhance what we build. So it’s one of those worlds today, if you have an idea and you go out and build, it can be quite costly. And you’re almost guaranteed to fail when you launch. So we try to find get as much information from our customers get enough feedback. And before we really, you know, build and when we build, we build as lightly as possible. So we can deploy iterate change, because I don’t think that anyone can get it right on the first go.

Lee Dale

Yeah, I think that includes process right? How do we adapt? Quickly? How do we connect with consumers and gain value out of that process? You can bring customers or partners, the comments that you’re working with into the types of workshops that you’re doing as well.

Mark Dowds

Yeah, very much. So yeah, we do everything in collaboration with like, we got various subject matter experts in in the company, obviously, but we also have sort of master facilitators. So we’ll bring them in fact today and at head office. We’ve got a you know, one of the large banks that you know we’re working with, and to help them think through a new proposition in the market. And so it’ll be like a three day long design thinking workshop on unruly so we’ll just apply some of the lead them through processes they’ve never been through before, which then they’re more than ready to go back into their own companies and the new skill sets. And

Lee Dale

So that might even be a, that’s not even necessarily a pre sales exercise. It’s a let’s uncover the strategic opportunity here and then see what fit.

Mark Dowds

Yeah, yeah. And quite often in those workshops, there’s so many other ideas or thoughts, that surface that may not be our focus, but there’s other people internally within their companies ago, actually, that’s a hot opportunity for us as well. So yeah, we end up surfacing a lot more than just a project or product that we’re working on.

Lee Dale

And this isn’t just about travel. It’s about the idea that, you know, you’re going out to work at a cafe, and you’re, you’re in a sense, mobile all the time. Yeah. Especially the gig economy is is increasing this as well, where you’re not even going to the same job place every day.

Mark Dowds

Yeah. And the gig economy is a fantastic one to think about. Because you’re going, you mean you can be traveling with your laptop. So what’s your personal laptop? And so then if you’re, technically if you’re caught working with that, or if you were to be honest on disclosure, saying, Well, I was working in the coffee shop when it was stolen. So then it’s a very fine line or a blurry line today, especially with the rise of this freelance generation or the gig economy. There’s just, it’s growing so fast that again, the lot of people just using their personal kit for work, and then a some sort of not really insured, or if you think about a wedding photographer, when I was what you have to know by insurance, if you’re taking you know if you’re going to be doing this professionally, and bought if you’re using the kit personally, do you really need that expensive insurance or do you only need it for that day? You know, so there’s there’s a lot of New nuances that are emerging at the moment.

Lee Dale

You’re steeped in these ideas around lean methodologies and and being quick to fail, and understanding how to get to that sooner so that you can make a smarter decision rather than even the idea of waterfall development. You’re saying, well, we started with a strategy. Do we keep hammering at that? Or do we let it go? And because the markets taking us in a different direction? Yeah. How easy is it to have those conversations with legacy businesses who don’t have your risk tolerance? And don’t have this experience that you have?

Mark Dowds

Yeah, it’s tough. I mean, that’s not even a legacy. There’s, I mean, I said, it’s a difficult conversation to have externally with partners unless it was a difficult conversation to have internally as an executive, or as board or with investors, you know, so you’ve got or just are with the wider team because you rally behind a particular you know, idea or strategy for a long time. takes guts to look at something and go, you know what, it’s not fully formed or there is a better way or a smarter way. And it takes a little takes some political management and wisdom. And some patience. I’ve, you know, I used to come from the years ago would have been if there was a significant change that need to be hard. I just did it. Right, right. We’re now you’ve got a pause, and you got to think about the ramifications, you got to think with the strategy of what it would mean, the implications and think it through from a business model perspective. So I think there’s just a little bit more wisdom and patience that comes with it. And internally, at Trov we, we are we basically say that what we lead with is humility, wisdom and courage. You know, so we try to remember who we are and what we’re not, you know, borrow from the wisdom says, not just those in leadership, but from the company itself. You know, learn from what, you know, successes and failures of the past, but then having enough courage to Go on. Because you know, there’s a, there’s a lot of things you don’t know all the information on, on it just takes a little bit of risk and go for something every so often.

Lee Dale

Well, and it’s even interesting to know, knowing the history of Trov, how much you’ve shifted product based on this exploration of the market, which is really exploring insurance. And where does that lead you? You’ve been down many paths

Mark Dowds

And insurance is a it’s a big, big world. You know, when we entered into it, I don’t think we we saw the numbers behind the market share, but it’s not until you get into it until you realize how complex it really is. And what it means from like learning. cost of acquisition within a within an insurance market is completely different from cost of acquisition and social media and other other businesses have been involved in and or learning that is not just the acquisition of a customer, but it’s the acquisition of the right customer. You know, if you acquire all the wrong ones, it’s problematic as well. It’s probably Yeah. You know, your underwriters wouldn’t like you if you did that. And so there’s, there’s a whole new world to be explored within insurance. And, and I think a lot of insurers themselves are unaware of the origins of their business. So for us a sort of going back to think on why does insurance exist? You know, you know, why is it a, you know, is it an important pillar of our society? And will the longer term disruption completely eradicate it? Or will it always be there, you know, and so on. And so in that, in that sense, we recognize that is an important color society because it enables society to take risk enables us to do things without without fear. You know, if we had no insurance on the home, we own or on the car that we drive through the certain amount of fear would enter as you know, as you any day you get into the car itself.

Lee Dale

Well, as a homeowner, You say this is maybe a significant part of my retirement. Yeah. Which could go up literally in smoke. Yeah, at any moment.

Mark Dowds

So, so enabling that. So that peace of mind and the say the risk taking or the ability to leverage rather than stockpiling all your wealth enables you land to be able to span that and other things. So there’s, there’s a lot there’s a lot of benefits to insurance because insurance can come across to a lot of people almost like a dirty word. It’s one of those grudge purchases format for most. But the more I’ve got into it, and realizing Actually, this is an important part of our lives. And if framed correctly, it could be something that we can embrace over time.

Lee Dale

And I think that’s a great point of the idea of framing it correctly means looking at how the market is shifting, looking at behaviors changing and understanding how do we adapt the models to that or come up with a new model that serves the changing environment right how much of the discussion is around risk and data and how technology mitigates risk.

Mark Dowds
Yeah, there’s a lot of conversation around what we’re doing is really, that’s, I think a lot of our partners are doing this, because we’re getting into gathering new data, data that know that it’s one of the competitive advantages that we bring a partner is that we’re going to bring them data that they can’t get anywhere else. So I’m for, there’s an old saying is that there’s two times to plant the tree. It’s either 20 years ago or today, you know, in some ways, we can look in 20 years time, you know, everyone’s going to want this data, but who’s willing to plant the tree today, and to be patient with that as it grows? So our our hope and what we’re doing is that we’re say planting a tree we want to grow, we want to gather the data and you know, 510 20 years into the future, you know, we can look back and go we were the ones that wise enough to see that this was coming and that that theatre would change the world.

Lee Dale

Can you share a little bit of an example of what it is that you’re bringing to the table from a data point of view,

Mark Dowds

From a from a data point of view. And if I think about the mobility space, and we are, we’re going to be launching a new product in the market. And that really focuses for for car owners on non car owners alike. And what we’re doing and you know, with partnering with those individuals is helping to understand how they move in life. So with the use of something like the accelerometer, within the phone will tell whether you’re driving, whether it’s your splicers driving or a friend, whether you’re on a ferry, whether you’re on a train, whether you’re on a bicycle, and we can begin to map those patterns and understand really, who you are and what’s the you know, what sort of persona you know, are you you know, are you a single moment of your power shopper or you know, are you know, do you do you have a full time job, you work from home. You know, there’s a lot of these things what we can do because if and build This new rich, Dear Ryan, that we actually can get the point where we understand you, then we can say, well, we can cater new protection on new lifestyle coverage around who you are. So I think data like that is can be extraordinarily valuable, as long as it’s for the benefit of the customer. And as long as they’re opted in, you know, because I think that’s the, the fine line that we have today, we’re, as long as we’re focused on customer value, then customers will continuously let us in and analyze that data.

Lee Dale

We talked a lot about digital transformation. And this idea that we’re leveraging technology for all the benefits around speed and data and being able to learn very quickly from behavior. But process is so much a part of that transformation. Yeah, the digital is is the is the new piece of the puzzle that isn’t being leveraged as well as it can be, but it requires a change in culture. It requires a change in process. So, when we talk about the idea of policy or regulation being in the way, that’s if you even mentioned the idea that your sales cycles are, you know, could be 1218 months plus, that’s an easy problem changing policy can be, you know, 3648 months long. But I think it’s a necessary part of probably some of the work that you’re doing as well as to have these conversations with the people who are the regulations in place to say this is no longer applicable. What do we do about this?

Mark Dowds

You know, we have this conversation this morning. Because, you know, we think about mobility and how that’s changing. So within Ontario that I mean, there’s there’s high levels of regulation, what you can and cannot do with a motor product, you know, so there’s some of that will could and we we understand why the regulation is there, you know, it’s to protect the people. But we’re but nice new data comes in as a sort of new opportunities arise with this. It’s going to really turn things upside down. So there’s going to be benefit or need to start engaging, you know, from regulatory and from the Department of Finance to sort of get them involved in the conversation so that they can recognize the benefit this, you know, the benefit of need there is at the moment to change. So one of these things

Lee Dale

Well, the best way to do that is to bring data. So the more that we can gather that information around behavior, we can then provide that as a tool in and of itself, to help innovate. So you’ve shaped Trov and reshaped over the course last five years around a shifting market. Where do you see that trending

Mark Dowds

Yeah for us as a company, we see that trending into beyond the products that we have under our own brand in the market. So we’re starting to leverage the platform of which we built the was necessary to to deploy these innovative solutions tonight, so our, you know, our future looks like you know, many, many products powered by tros. So, you know, you can imagine going you know Launching, you know, a product for folks who rent homes a product for folks, folks who own homes, a product for people who don’t own cars or product folks, they own cars. So we start to like, work with partners with their data with their customers and build and deploy these new digital initiatives. And then start bringing those to global a global audience. I would say it’s very similar to what happened in the FinTech world. Once in the financial sector, you had these break offs of payments sectors, your little, you know, different pieces, you know, components that were then taken away by other folks that will see the same in the insurance world. And our hope is that we can work with a lot of these folks to digitize that experience, and bring it more seamless opportunity. But ultimately, for us, it’s Trov as a platform is the way forward.

Meghan Warby

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Digital Disruptors featuring our industry expert Mark Dowds, Check out sayyeah.com and visit the Digital Insights section for event recaps, videos, and more transformation and disruption stories.